Yesterday, our amazingly astute, president said that bin Laden was trying to set up terrorist camps and attack sites in Iraq, and as such, is the main reason why the war on “terror” in Iraq is so essential. But Mr. President… didn’t you say this about bin Laden just a few years ago(?):
Deep in my heart I know the man is on the run, if he’s alive at all. Who knows if he’s hiding in some cave or not; we haven’t heard from him in a long time. And the idea of focusing on one person is — really indicates to me people don’t understand the scope of the mission.
Terror is bigger than one person. And he’s just — he’s a person who’s now been marginalized. His network, his host government has been destroyed. He’s the ultimate parasite who found weakness, exploited it, and met his match. He is — as I mentioned in my speech, I do mention the fact that this is a fellow who is willing to commit youngsters to their death and he, himself, tries to hide — if, in fact, he’s hiding at all.
So I don’t know where he is. You know, I just don’t spend that much time on him, Kelly, to be honest with you. I’m more worried about making sure that our soldiers are well-supplied; that the strategy is clear; that the coalition is strong; that when we find enemy bunched up like we did in Shahikot Mountains, that the military has all the support it needs to go in and do the job, which they did. (source)
So let me get this straight: the very man that we shouldn’t be focusing on, because he is, after all, just one man (per your words), is THE reason why the war in Iraq is so essential? Humnia humina huh? That sounds like, the complete and total opposite of what you have been telling us for years! It sounds like he has been the real threat all along, yet, you have told us time and again that we shouldn’t be focused on him, because even you don’t spend that much time on him.
I think someone has a case of “I don’t know what the fuck is going on” syndrome, with an unhealthy case of “I am sure that they won’t remember that I said the exact opposite a few years ago” addiction. Point is, if bin Laden is such a threat, why aren’t we going after him? He isn’t in Iraq, is he? And if he is, why aren’t we killing the shit out of him? Perhaps if we would have been focused on him all along, we might not even need to be in Iraq today. If the intelligence was there in 2001, and we knew that he was a threat, why didn’t we go after him? Now, you are saying, in 2007, that bin Laden is the problem, based on info you found in 2005. (!!??!?!) That confuses me, because it sounds to me, like he has always been the problem, yet for almost 5 years now, you have told us he isn’t worth our resources. (Again… ?!?!??!!!??)
If you believe that this president is capable of doing anything more advanced that opening a bag of potato chips, then please stay clear of me, I am terrified of people that will blindly back a person that clearly lacks a basic level of intelligence. It is blaringly clear that this administration is grasping at steadily disappearing straws, trying to come up with reason after reason to justify the needless war on “terror”. Continually using fear tactics, and talking ad nauseam about “the killers” that want to “attack us here”, only to say that you don’t spend any time on the very one that was responsible for ACTUALLY attacking us here, is not only irresponsible, it is sadistic and sociopathic; not to mention bordering on insane.
I am sick and tired of the bullshit. Kill bin Laden. Don’t kill bin Laden. Either way, he isn’t in Iraq, and continuing a war on the people of Iraq is genocide. There is so much blood on our hands, we will never be able to wash it clean, and I for one, want us to at least stop adding fuel to the fire. That will require a president that is able to comprehend basic intelligence, which, unfortunately, we don’t have. January 2009 cannot come soon enough.
Anyone else want to move to another country? Because I am about ready to jump this sinking ship.
Duane, you know you’re setting yourself up for another flame war here right? At some point you gotta hold back on bashing the President, cause it’s like my boy chuck said”
For good or for evil, he’s still the President for another 18 or so months, at least this ain’t like the UK where he could run for office again, we had Tony Blair in charge for 10 years, 10 years! can you believe that?
It just seems like every other post your making is like this…
Greg, my posts, are, and always will be, a reflection of my thoughts. I honestly believe that if something bothers you, venting it will make you feel better; and as such, these posts are born. I talk about this stuff with people IRL too, so I guess it is something that will show up on my blog. I say what I say more as a way to collect and express my thoughts, and less as a iron to stir up a fight. I know that there are people that disagree, and they are usually the same ones; but I know that there are others that agree, and like to see that others agree with them. I know I feel that way.
And yes, THANK GOD he only has 18 months left. I can’t imagine 10 years with him at the helm. I also look back at the Thatcher years, and wince!
Thatcher was awful, screwed the country properly, privatised everything that was near and dear to the populous, the railways are still reeling some 20 years later.
She is pretty much EVIL PERSONIFIED! More so than Bush ever could hope to be. She was anti democratic, hated poor people and thought the mentally ill were shirkers. The poll tax riots were thoroughly deserved and overdue, of course, she sprung that on the Scottish first a year before the English had to pay up. Pretty much all her policies were relentless experiments on the whole of Scotland, including trying to turn the country into one giant call centre.
There are parts of Britain that have had one industry for as long as they’ve existed (thinking mining in South Wales and parts of Yorkshire, ship building in the North East) and in closing down these industries and not replacing the work with anything else she has turned once prosperous areas into scary chav wastelands with no prospects. Once wealthyish families are now into their third generation of unemployment and no possibility of employment thanks to that cunt.
Be thankful you didn’t live in that country during that time, thankfully she lost power when she did, each year she was there seemed longer than the last… and the sad thing is she can’t die by conventional means, not until her contract with the devil is due. If she ends up hooked up to machines, they should really do a National Lottery special, to find out which lucky punter gets to pull the plug. I’d buy several thousand tickets… and all for a good cause!
Can your dislike of Bush match up to that?
That was classified info, which you are comparing to something he said over 5 years ago.
Does it seem far-fetched to you that W would want to try and marginalize OBL by saying he wasn’t very important? Wouldn’t that be a reasonable psy-op strategy? It seems to have worked like a charm on you. I would suspect we have never given up on finding OBL. If it is so easy to find people why can’t you guys produce those 36 million “food insecure” people?
Bugboy,
LMAO! Seriously?? LOL, you are hilarious. And in addition, the “something he said over 5 years ago” is, uh, exactly what we knew over 6 years ago. We have known it all along, but all of a sudden, it is important again. My point, is that this president lacks the ability to really focus on the problem. If you can’t see that, I have nothing further to say to you.
Greg, my friend, you are 100% correct! She is the devil, and it is awful what she did. Unfortunately, Bush has a similar hate for the middle class and the poor. He has the same problem she did; a lack of perspective when it comes to the different levels of society with which people fall. It is sad, and unfortunate, and I wish that we could keep people like this out of power.
I hope that they do the lottery thing, and I hope that you win! I will be cheering you on when I see you pull the plug on TV! Down with the devil I tell ya!!
I again, just hate that people like this are allowed such blindingly destructive power, and in the end, are never held accountable, and never really care about who they destroy. It is my hope that the “Christian” ones, or whatever they believe in the “betterment of afterlife”, spend an eternity writhing in hell because of the sheer evil, pestilence, and impudence they spread on the innocent. Even then, it wouldn’t be enough.
Does it seem far-fetched to you that W would want to try and marginalize OBL by saying he wasn’t very important? Wouldn’t that be a reasonable psy-op strategy? It seems to have worked like a charm on you. I would suspect we have never given up on finding OBL. If it is so easy to find people why can’t you guys produce those 36 million “food insecure†people?
Who are the targets of the psy-op strategy? Is it Bin Laden and his fellow travellers? Because that is far from a reasonable strategy, more like pointless. Do you think they are going to suffer from an irrecoverable loss of self esteem from the snub, or alternatively, suddenly become complacent because they think no one is after them?
Are the targets people outside of the U.S.? What purpose does it serve to do so?
Or, as you suggest, are the targets of Bush’s brilliant psy-ops strategy Americans? Put aside the illegality issues, what purpose does it serve to convince some Americans that we aren’t really looking for OBL?
I’d love to hear your analysis on how this is such a wicked reasonable psy-ops strategy.
As far as producing the 36 million food insecure people, I already produced them in another thread. Check the USDA study again to find out who they are and where they live, or find a study on hunger in America to rebut the USDA claims from a source that you don’t think are part of a sinister, Mao-like propaganda plot to fool Americans into thinking that other Americans are hungry.
I think Greg’s initial comment was an attempt to prevent another “omg, you people are so mean, stop fighting” post.
ming, Ah… didn’t think about that. That is so true, though, because there are certain people that do seem to get a little out of hand, and I usually end up getting frustrated with how things go.
It is always that one that has to spoil the bunch. I have given it a lot of thought recently, and if I have to start removing comments (or commenters), I will. I have sent out the warning post already; the next time I feel the line is crossed, it will be time for action). Thanks for pointing that out. I didn’t think that Greg was being like “you bitch and moan too much about this to people who are going to stir a shitstorm”, as much as he was just trying to find out why I feel the need to address them in the first place.
“My point, is that this president lacks the ability to really focus on the problem. If you can’t see that, I have nothing further to say to you.”
Well obviously he was focusing on it, but at the time it was classified so he couldn’t tell you he was focusing on it.
Psy-ops usually involves making things seem different than they really are as part of a strategy of deception. This falls in line with the pattern of what they said about Saddam.
I’m impressed that suddenly and without explanation you believe everything W says as the gospel. You sure do drink the Kool Aid.
So, you are saying that bin Laden attacking us 9/11 was classified? The fact that he was the #1 terrorist in the world stirring shit up to “kill us” was classified? Oh, I thought that was common knowledge. Bush was the one that said he didn’t think about it anymore, and DEPRIORITIZED IT.
If you think that was a reverse psychology strategy, you are really in so deep that you may never get out. I actually kind of feel bad that you still believe in the lies.
Obviously, I don’t think that bin Laden is the answer to all of our problems, and never suggested that Bush’s renewed interest in him was a good thing. I was pointing out that he was being hypocritical at best in his assertions. Perhaps you should focus on what I say, rather than stretching it into other things.
And, not to “go there”, but this psy-op strategy you speak of sounds like a really official and nice way to say lies. I mean, seriously. Lies are still lies, as was the case with Saddam; remember? No WMDs x no terrorist actions against us on 9/11 x the reason why we went to war with Iraq = perpetuation of lies as a tactic. (or psy-ops as you call it). I’ll stick with calling a lie a lie, thanks.
“Are the targets people outside of the U.S.? What purpose does it serve to do so?”
My guess is it would have more to do with worldwide Muslim opinion of OBL. I have no idea if it is a good plan or not, but for whatever reason you want to imagine, we haven’t been attacked in 6 years. This is not what I would have predicted.
Psy-ops usually involves making things seem different than they really are as part of a strategy of deception. This falls in line with the pattern of what they said about Saddam.
Bravo! Thank you for defining psy-ops, I had no idea what it meant. But now a follow up question, which you dodged. To what purpose? That was my point. I took three potential targets of this psy-ops campaign: Al Qaeda and fellow travelers, non-Americans, and American citizens. What is the purpose of deceiving any of these groups that the U.S. wasn’t really looking for OBL.
Is it possible that maybe when Bush goes off script he tends to ramble and misspeak? Nah, it was a psyops job. What a hero!
“So, you are saying that bin Laden attacking us 9/11 was classified?”
The information recently released was classified. Didn’t you read your own link?
“never suggested that Bush’s renewed interest in him was a good thing. I was pointing out that he was being hypocritical at best…”
You are seriously confusing public statements with classified policy, as if you know everything that’s going on.
“I’ll stick with calling a lie a lie, thanks.”
FDR lied about the true date of D-Day. What a fucking liar that guy was. He he every obligation to tell the Germans THE TRUTH!!
“Obviously, I don’t think that bin Laden is the answer to all of our problems”
Wow, now you’re channeling George Bush.
And as for Saddam, Bush NEVER said there was a tie to Iraq for 9/11. That is just more propaganda you have swallowed without question.
“If you think that was a reverse psychology strategy, you are really in so deep that you may never get out.”
The nature of PsyOps is widely reported and very in line with my comments. You’ll see next time it pops up in the news, and then you’ll come crawling back all “I’m sorry Bugby…I’m not worthy” and I’ll be like all “YOU LIBERALS IS ALL MY BITCHES” and we’ll both be laffing and laffing. Ok?
You should not be arguing about politics but anthro…that’s what you mess up on the best.
Bugboy,
99% of your comments are stupid, but this:
Is amazingly stupid. Yeah, that is pretty much how we were convinced to go to war with Iraq. Perhaps you have that selective memory that the Bush administration is so good at using themselves. As I recall, and as many do, since it is a little thing called history, um, Bush said that Saddam definitely had ties to 9/11, al Qaeda, WMDs, the works. You are in some serious denial, my friend.
“I do not recall”, anyone?
And, when you show me your masters in anthropology, I will then field any comments as to what anthropology is and is not, okay? Until then, keep it to yourself, unless you actually have something useful to say. As of now, you continue to say that I am wrong about something that you know nothing about. That’s a more than a little crazy, if you ask me.
“Is it possible that maybe when Bush goes off script he tends to ramble and misspeak? Nah, it was a psyops job. What a hero!”
Oh yes, he is an incredibly bad spokesman for his own cause. But it also could have been a strategy. We don’t know for sure. Therefore, it’s foolish to declare it was stupidity when it has the look and feel of psy ops.
duane, it’s obvious you’ve made your mind up about Bush. I doubt you’ll deny it and it’s definitely not news to anyone else. Because of this narrowmindedness you make something out of nothing. Bin Laden on the run, or Bin Laden setting up training camps… does he not need to be punished for what he’s doing? Can things not change dramatically over the course of 5 years?
“As of now, you continue to say that I am wrong about something that you know nothing about. That’s a more than a little crazy, if you ask me.”
That’s rich coming from the person who said Bush declared ties to 9/11 with Iraq. This, again, is your imagination. You are just too susceptible to propaganda.
“We have no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved with the 11 September attacks,” Mr Bush told reporters as he met members of Congress on energy legislation. (2003)
“…Bugboy,
99% of your comments are stupid…”
IT’S BUGBY DAMMIT!!!!!!
“Can things not change dramatically over the course of 5 years?”
Everything but Duane.
Dave, I am convinced that Bush is not doing what is best for our country with regards to this war. With regards to very few things, he has done the right thing. When I start to see some evidence that he has done good, I will gladly give him credit where credit is due; I never fully make up my mind about anyone, and have been proven to change my opinions of people in the past. Don’t assume that because I hold steadfast to what I say about him and his administration, that I would not easily be able to admit when, and if, anything good was done by them. I would actually LOVE to post a post that was titled, “How awesome is it that Bush did X!”, but, I can’t do that.
If bin Laden was the problem then, and is now the problem again, after we spent several years taking resources away from finding and destroying him, why is it that the identification of this fact means that “things can’t change?”? Because, basically, Bush is using this as a new reason for the Iraq war, when it was previously a concern, and then he denounced it as a concern.
The change as been the flip-flopping administration trying to keep convincing the Americans that what we are doing is right. It is clear that the only change is this: They keep coming up with new excuses, and less and less people are believing them.
I would love to see some change, but in fact, in the past 4 years of war, we have seen little to none; well, other than a drastic increase in death and destruction in Iraq.
Bugboy, it is clear that to try and convince you of anything that you don’t already believe is futile, and continually trying to do so is an exercise of insanity.
Believe whatever you want. It doesn’t mean that you are correct. I’ll stick to my “propaganda”, I mean, facts. I don’t care if you sit out there alone in the dark for the rest of your life. Me and the other progressive thinkers will continue to analyze and examine the way the real world is working, without you.
Reading this makes me wonder why more of you who seem to have all the answers are not working in a field that requires 8 or more hours of work each day — leaving no time to blog during the workday — in effect, making greater tangible contributions to your employer & ultimately our society… versus poking holes in everything our leaders (elected by the people) try to do…
if you had those types of careers, my bet is that you’d be in a different tax bracket… repulsed by the way welfare is abused by countless recipients and fails to rehabilitate those who get it instead of focusing what $3 a day will buy — how far is welfare from socialism anyway?
who knows.. maybe you’re already in that type of career path since you seem to have every game device, the latest cell phone technology, the best photography & PC equipment, how many pairs of the $100 jeans that you can’t wear any more, $$ to go out drinking all the time in one of the more expensive areas, $$ to travel, a car that requires premium & everything except a hot tub like your parent’s that you envy…
don’t get me wrong.. I love reading here.. it stimulates my mind & emotions… i love my 2 running my v8 vehicles that require premium unleaded turn between 12 – 15 mpg on the average tank — a VW Touareg & red-neck, hot-rod Z28 ragtop…. I love my belvedere & chopin on the rocks… etc… etc…
I also wonder why you don’t seek out public leadership opportunities as a platform for your ideals instead of or in addition to blogging…
my point is — ensure your political/society involvement matches the words here… I’m not saying to stick your head in the sand in situations you disagree with on a national level…
I challenge you to do something practical to help out others where you can instead of focusing so intently on things beyond your control…. not passing out condoms @ a bar… but feed at homeless shelter, etc.
My experience is I feel much better about all when I help someone or an organization who cannot help themselves…. try it… heck, you already have a forum to give us all an update..
That was f@cking hilarious.
cjg, while I see where you are coming from, wouldn’t you admit that those that do what they can (no matter how little), as well as spend time trying to raise awareness about the problems that people face are doing more good than those that continually deny those problems exist? I do what I can, when I can, and while I admit, that I could probably do more, I think that by blogging, I am at least alerting people to the problem.
I would love to seek public leadership, I just don’t have the resources I would need to gain public office. I also am a bit of a self-doubter, so I worry that I wouldn’t get any votes
But when you raise issues that are not proven to exist, can be refuted with great ease, or are based on questionable data, you do a disservice. It’s like the boy who cried wolf.
And yet, you have yet to prove me wrong with anything other than “you are wrong”. Thanks, but try again. Because you refuse to believe the so-called questionable data, that is not my problem; there are others that are not narrow-minded, and will be informed by what I have presented.
You did not present scientific data no matter how loud you snap your finger, so your statement is not correct.
Oh shit, Bugboy, I finally see it. You have showed me. Your complete lack of anything other than your negating our facts have really proven that you are indeed the one that is correct here. Thanks for clarifying your awesome correctness!
*snap*
This is just another of Shrub’s tactics to gain support for his unpopular war. He has demonstrated more than once how he likes to push the “fear” button and this is just another way to try to strike fear in the hearts of Americans. Shrub is an idiot!!
Maybe I need some proof of that statement…watch the news, read the newspaper, check the news online…if you know how to read, the proof is there….
Hey, you didn’t tell me you did volunteer work! Where? When?
Lori, I volunteered for more than a year in the heart surgery wing at the hospital in Greenville when I was in undergrad. I also volunteered for almost a year at AID Atlanta when I was in grad school. Sadly, I haven’t volunteered in the last few years; perhaps I will again soon.
You could do the Humane Society with me (after training), or I know the school across the street from you needs volunteers, too.
Oooo… Let’s talk more about that; and we have been donating things and helping a little with the school thing. My friend Anne is on some board with them, and we actually need to get more involved.