Mr. Bush, if you veto a FUNDING bill, then YOU are the one that is denying the troops funding. The bill is giving them money, and for that money to forward, YOU have to okay it. Since you haven’t come up with any plan other than “this is unacceptable” and “we aren’t leaving”, I suggest that you realize how hypocritical it is for you to continually say you support the troops when you take actions like this. The blame for the troops not getting the funding they need, and are being offered by the Congress, lies solely on your Mr. President. Your veto is a strong statement; it says loud and clear that you cannot accept responsibility for anything as complicated as rational thought and rational decision making, and that you, above all, do not support the troops, and do not want to give them the funding they need and deserve. Passing the buck here isn’t going to work. (link)
I for one hope that Congress doesn’t back down. I say, that if Bush does veto it, then that’s fine, just make sure that people realize that he had a funding bill sitting in front of him, one that would have given the troops the funding they needed, and he turned it down. HE turned it down. Ridiculous. But then, so too is the logic these people use, right? I for one am sick of this mess. Either give them the funding they need, and be realistic and realize that the American people want to actually get out of Iraq, or be your usual “head in the sand”-self, and pretend that you are the “decider”. I just hope that this time, credit is given where credit is due, and this isn’t blamed on the Democrats (who, again, are offering funding). Offering a funding mechanism that the President turns up his nose to and refuses is NOT taking money away from the troops, at least, not on the part of those offering up the dough. THIS JUST IN… Apparently, Bill O’Reilly is the voice of those idiots I was speaking of, that think that this has anything to do with the Democrats “holding up funding”:
Americans fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan are caught in the middle of a nasty political brawl between President Bush and the Democratic party. Democrats led by Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid and Speaker Nancy Pelosi want a timetable for the withdrawal of U.S. forces from Iraq. The president says that’s a foolish military strategy and will not do it, so the Democrats are holding up military funding. (source… I know it is hard to link fauxnews, but that’s where the idiocracy is…)
Hey Bill, sweetness, um, Bush is holding up the funding, the Democrats are trying to give them the money. And it isn’t just the Democrats, it is the Congress. Be a peach and gain some perspective, mmmkay?
Also, this is hilarious how completely daft these people are:
Harry Reid is wrong to force a timetable and try to cut funding at this moment. He and Speaker Pelosi are putting American troops in a very bad position.
Can anyone explain to me how PROPOSING FUNDING is CUTTING IT? Or better yet, how it is DENYING funds??? Wow. Can’t. See. Past. Own. Bullshit. Wow, we really do have a long way to go if these are the people that are running the world. Perhaps there needs to be another “i” and one less “n” in running… (ruining anyone)?
I didn’t read all of your post but I have to say this, I would have vetoed this bill. Not because of the time table, because of all the pork spending attached to it. Send a real funding bill through and signage is guaranteed.
I believe that the funding you are referring to goes to aid people that lost crops/livestock due to (wouldn’t you know it) unpredictable weather patterns, and will lose their farms/businesses if the government doesn’t help them out. Without that funding, we will suffer, and the price of those goods will increase. The economy suffers when the government doesn’t support local business.
This is also, since you pointed it out, a pretty clear example of how much Bush hates the working class people in our country.
Regardless of where the money was going, this is an emergency spending bill for the troops. All that other shit should be in a different bill.
Bush hates the working class… sure… whatevs. I’ve done very well for myself during his time in office.
Dave, I agree that it would be better served in another bill, but he is not stating this funding as the reason the bill should be vetoed. He is resting on the fact that the American people, through the congress, are demanding a withdrawal time line.
Also, I wouldn’t go so far as to classify you as working class. You make way too much money to be a part of that group.
Yet Congress sent him a funding bill anyways… weird. You would think that if the American people wanted out of Iraq and Congress was acting on their wishes, then they would have just said, “Nope, no money for you.” But they didn’t… wonder why?
And oh yeah, I may not be working class now but I sure as hell was when Bushie took office. Look at me now!
Um, first of all, because if they did that, then they would leave them stranded, and there would be no money to pull out. What they want is a withdrawal in the certain future, by a certain date. They are basically saying with this money, “here is your war money, but it is only to wrap things up, and get the fuck out”. Obviously that is going to take money, so there it is.
As for your personal fortune, congratulations, but for every one of you, there are hundreds of people that make less than $8 an hour. Those people suffer still, and more so every day under this administration. And if you say anything about them “getting better jobs”, you are more ignorant to the way the world works than I thought.
OH, RIGHT! The date … the date we can tell the insurgents over there that we’ll be out by. The date they can wait until, hiding in their caves and whatnots, to only take over the government once we’re gone. Brilliant idea! Setting a date for withdrawal only helps the enemy by allowing them to wait until we’re gone and take control without worrying about a real force to stop them.
Suffer? Please… I won’t utter the comment about getting a better job but how about getting an additional job. I worked two jobs when I was “working class” just to get by. Don’t give me that 1 in a 100 bullshit. I’m no anomaly, I’m just not lazy.
You don’t see how silly a timetable is? For the Dims to attach such a silly condition to the funding does make it more than just “funding the troops”. What they really want is withdrawal and surrender and stab the troops in the back so they can score political points at home. This is treachery and nothing less.
But talk about “democratic leadership”, let’s see if they allow it to go unfunded after the veto. That’s what they really *want* to do. Let’s see how spineless these “leaders” really are, and if they really mean what they have been saying about the war or if they are hypocrites.
BTW, the surge has so far been working pretty well. Ooops. And you won’t hear a single Dim say a good thing about that.
Are you saying these $8/hour people had it made in the Clinton years? How do you justify blaming Bush? My guess is you don’t.
A little training, a little night school, a little self-discipline and they CAN get better jobs (but not GIVEN a better job). But most wont for obvious reasons about themselves.
Well, Dave’s done mighty fine for himself, so everything’s swell, y’all! Yep, let’s close the book on that one… no need to worry! Bush is a-okay in my book, as long as Dave has money in the bank!
Bugboy,
I call bullshit on “the surge is working pretty well.” John McCain said he and any other gringo could take a casual stroll through Baghdad it was so safe. But any other gringo doesn’t have 150 soldiers and 20 Humvees following him.
If the people you and Dave elected last time out had run a real war instead of a political war (defend Bush overidding the generals’ troop level recommendations or the disbanding of the Republican Guard, I fucking dare either of you), maybe we’d have better choices than “send more people to die for a lost cause” or “abandon the clusterfuck we created and have no idea how to solve.”
God hates a vacuum.
Amber, you’ve finally seen the light. Took long enough…
Unemployment is down and the economy is up. That sounds pretty positive to me.
There is no question the war was handled poorly in the beginning, but regardless of what stupid propaganda McCain may be involved with the surge is working.
Didn’t think God hated? Didn’t think God existed?
What evidence are you providing to demonstrate your point Dave? “It’s working because I say it’s working” doesn’t cut it.
Of course it does Rusty. Did you see what your girlfriend said? What I say goes!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/09/AR2007030901839.html
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2007/01/surge_produces_some_early_resu.html
http://www.nypost.com/seven/03202007/postopinion/opedcolumnists/why_its_working_____opedcolumnists_gordon_cucullu.htm?page=0
dave,
First of all, insurgents are Iraqis that don’t want Americans occupying their country. If we stay there 1 million years, they will always fight us for occupying a country that belongs to them. We weren’t supposed to be at war WITH Iraq, we were supposed to be at war with the terrorists in control of Iraq. Now, those lines have blurred, and we are causing more and more civilian death. Time to stop that.
As for this:
You are completely ignorant if you think that people are poor because they are lazy. It appears more and more that your ignorance on this is never going to change, and as such, you end up being part of the problem, instead of being part of a solution.
Bugboy, what I see when you say things like this:
Is that your problem lies in the fact that you are anti-Democrat. It isn’t going to work if it is Democrats vs. Republicans, both sides need to learn how to work together. Additionally, withdrawal from Iraq is not surrender, especially since we are occupying a country that never attacked us!
As for this:
Again with the Clinton talking points? When will you stop living in the past? In order to fix the problems of TODAY, we need to look at what is going on TODAY. As for the training and school nonsense, apparently, you don’t truly realize what poor people are up against either. Until you become enlightened to that, you will always believe that these people are lazy and just don’t want to try, and that is just wrong. Saying it over and over will only make it right for you, but it will not make it reality.
Dave,
Where are you getting this from? I believe that it was last week or the week before when the economy was in threat of depression! Things are not going as well as you think.
As far as the surge working, I don’t buy it. Especially because this is what, the 5th one, and still around 100 people a day die in Iraq from violence related to this war? They have said that sectarian violence is down, but ONLY because suicide bombing is on the rise. Regardless of whether the surge is “working” or not, we have NO BUSINESS BEING THERE!
We went to war against the government of Iraq. We overthrew it and have been there providing security (and knocking off a few terrorists) while the Iraqi people set up their own government. And you’re right about the insurgents attacking us for the next million years. However, if we set a date to leave, they’ll stop attacking. Things will become quiet and peaceful. Then we leave … the insurgents strap on the bomb vests and head out to take over the government. All of our work would be for naught as Iraq would become a sactuary for terrorists.
duane YOU are completely ignorant if you think people are not poor because of laziness. We’ve established an entitlement mentality in this society causing people to look to the government for everything. Sure there are people that have fallen on hard times but for the majority of people they simply want a free hand out. Look at the shambles our welfare system is in. People popping out kid after kid for a bigger check and more food stamps… food stamps they sell so they can get a cell phone rather than food for their kids.
I don’t know how many times I can say this but the world is not supposed to be easy. It’s not peaches and cream. You must work hard to live and if you don’t you deserve to die. I lose no sleep at night thinking about the people that freeze to death on the streets rather than walking into McDonalds for a job application.
For those people out there that truly need help, I have no problem helping them. But for those that are a drain on our economy because they choose to be, nuh-uh. Let them rot.
The absolute WORST way to have a country establish a new government, one that we approve of, is to tell them how to do it, while we stand over their shoulder and hold back those that disapprove. Our work in Iraq was to take out Saddam, prevent him from using his non-existent WMDs, and then fight the terrorists of Al Queda. NOT to rebuild the government, NOT to occupy the country, and NOT to enforce our own values and laws in Iraq.
Again, with regards to YOUR ignorance on the poor, just because you say this:
does not diminish your ignorance. You in fact, enforce it. Dave, you must recognize, if you ever truly want to understand anyone other than yourself, that people do not start nor do they stand on equal ground. Where you are born, who you are born to, and who you are matter immensely in this world, and it DOES have an effect on how you find yourself in the economic echelons of this society. Until you can acknowledge this difference, and refrain from blaming everyone for their problems, especially ones that they cannot fix, and call all poor people lazy, you are turning an ignorant and blind eye to reality, and that is just sad. I am very glad that you are not the one in charge, because I would fear for anyone that is one paycheck away from being homeless themselves. To simplify the poor situation in this country in the manner that you have is insensitive, borderline racist, and suggestive of genocidal thoughts. I cringe when I read this, because I know you really think you are right.
Do you know that the predominant number of people on welfare are single white women? Do you know each and every one of their circumstances? Do you care? Also, those people rotting in the streets, that you suggest getting a job at McDonalds would solve all of their problems; do you stop to consider that they may have mental illness? Because I think it is estimated that something like 75% of homeless people are afflicted with mental illness, and the main reason they are homeless, is because they cannot take care of themselves. Should they just die because they can’t help it? That is sad. In addition to that, can you really believe that simply walking into the McDonald’s is going to give him a job, a place to live, etc? You have to put down an address to get the job; which is impossible if you are homeless. But I guess that is his own fault, right? Incredible. And if he does manage to get that job, the $6 an hour he gets is going to pay for his rent, power, clothes, food, etc? Gain some realistic perspective. Everything isn’t as easy as get a job and move on. There are many, many different variables that affect each and every person on this planet, that in turn affect where they fall financially, and it isn’t always about being “lazy”.
If you truly wanted to help those that wanted help, you would realize this, rather than lumping them all into the lazy category. But again, that would require you to put down your ignorance, which you don’t seem willing to do.
Why are you so afraid of the past that you run from it? Are you concerned that hypocrisy is being exposed? It looks like you don’t like Clinton being brought up because it invalidates your criticisms of Bush. I think the Clinton parallels provide some perspective in your selective attacks on Bush.
Withdrawing from Iraq is most certainly surrender no matter how you want to play around with semantics. You still haven’t answered the question of what would be the result in that region and the world if we did withdraw now.
As long as the Dims are pursuing an agenda that helps the terrorists then it is a matter of Red vs Blue. The Dims have been trying to undermine the war effort from the very beginning. I have a big problem when any group tries to stab our military in the back by helping the enemy. Now they want all of our soldiers’ deaths to be in total vain by leaving too early just so they can make political gains. And you don’t find that repulsive?
As for poor people, what they are up against is themselves. In most cases people are poor due to their own habits. Did you ever go to school? If so, don’t you remember kids making horrible decisions with their lives, too LAZY to do work, having kids when they couldn’t afford them, drug use, etc. Duane, these people grow up and become poor. Giving them free things won’t help them.
And don’t be silly with the talk about mental patients and the like, because that is not the issue here.
When did I ever quote, much less vote for, John McCain?
It’s being reported all over the place that the surge has been making great progress SO FAR. Why don’t people want to admit this? IS THIS BAD NEWS TO ANYONE?????
Funny how you call some of us making six figures ignorant but not poor people.
During the CLINTON YEARS they overhauled welfare and guess what happened. Those well-meaning lifetime welfare takers finally got jobs, PROVING the problem was their laziness all along. Where were you in the 90s? This has been proven.