This year’s pride wasn’t as exciting or entertaining as previous years, but that had a lot to do with the weather (Friday, the stage blew over, and Sunday, there was a torrential downpour during and after the parade) and well, my getting older (i.e., not able to drink all day AND night). But overall, I had a great time hanging out with friends, and enjoying the crowds. Saturday was the main day for us, and it was hotter than I believe it could ever be without the risk of me melting, but we managed to hang out in the park most of the day. After he left us, a good friend of mine did his part in getting back at the hateful protesters that always accompany pride. Here’s a picture of him doing us proud:
He apparently stood out there for about an hour, and endured this man pushing him in the back and saying hateful things to him the whole time. That was a pretty awesome thing to do, Josh.
Overall, I love that we have pride, and that it is such a big affair here every year. I hope that it only continues to grow, and we can continue to celebrate our diversity, and pride for who we are. It also gives me a warm feeling to know that there are that many GLBT people out there that come together on pride, and even more so that there are so many straight supporters celebrating with us, as well. Now if we could just get a year where it doesn’t rain… Perhaps next year!
Similar, but not too similar, to my thoughts on pride, a fellow atlblogger decided to say some pretty mean things about me after I said that he was self-hating because of his constant negative critique of anything and everything gay, and I know that there are at least a few of you that are interested in my response. Well, my response is that it makes me wonder about someone that continually portrays themselves as dissatisfied and unhappy with practically anything related to being gay, or gay culture (in that it may represent our culture outwardly to the overall society in ways that other people may or may not approve of), that doesn’t feel that his critique at least gives the illusion of self-hatred or denial; based on his affliation with said group. Wanting something to be “better” or “more representative” doesn’t come across through constant critique and judgement. Many of us don’t see the portrayal of, or expression of, “stereotypical” or “negative” representations of gay culture as necessarily weakening our “political movement” or “our cause”. To me, and the reason I made the statement to him, pride weekend is about a celebration of who we are, warts and all, not a political forum for furthering the “gay agenda”. If it represents us as anything, in my opinion it shows that we are just as diverse as “mainstream” society, and that while some may see us as deviant, we celebrate our uniqueness in the way that we know how; after all, something that differentiates us from the “mainstream” based on sex (the act of, not biological) carries certain sexual expressions and representations, to expect otherwise is a recipe for disappointment. I am also a believer that practically any representation of us in the media (albeit, positive, not negative) is a good thing, because it normalizes us even more, and that only the ignorant will truly believe that all gays are limp wristed nellies. If my call about him was off-kilter, it was simply a response to the many negative critiques that serve as the evidence I have seen on his blog thus far. Furthermore, I will end this by saying that I now realize that my first mistake was giving a rats ass about anything he had to say, and that I will not be making this mistake in the future. Obviously, I, along with many others, tend to get confused when people constantly critique and talk down about something they are a part of, while what they actually mean, is that they support and want to improve it. And that’s all I have to say about that.
Heheheheh…..I love your friend for doing that…..and as far as your ‘discussions’ with that other blogger…..I’ve fallen prey to voicing my disagreements over other bloggers…..and realize now…..that it’s a waste of time. Not only can’t u change another’s opinion…..but….it is, also; their blog…..to speak about whatever the hell they want.
The rain was God’s way of saying you are all heathens.
O.M.G. That picture is so awesome. That totally made my day!
I just re-read AtlMalcontent’s posts.
Despite his obvious and justifiable annoyance at you for calling him self-loathing, he doesn’t say anything “mean” about you. He stays very focused on arguing his point without attacking you personally.
I understand and respect that you disagree strongly with the tone and substance of his columns, but you’re the one who went “personal” when you decided that his views are indicative of a character flaw. Unfortunately, you continue to repeat that point above.
The strange thing is that, in what you just wrote, you also agree with Malcontent’s original point:
You wrote: “I am also a believer that practically any representation of us in the media (albeit, positive, not negative) is a good thing, because it normalizes us even more,”
That’s the same point that Malcontent makes in post after post, directly and indirectly. The disagreement between the two of you is in what constitutes a positive and negative representation.
As for the issue of what Pride weekend means. You write: “To me . . . pride weekend is about a celebration of who we are, warts and all, not a political forum for furthering the “gay agenda”.
To YOU, that’s what it is. To others, it’s not. To Malcontent, and to the hundreds of people handing out political literature at the festival, Pride is also political. Is someone self-loathing because they don’t like to celebrate at the same time that you do?
Pride weekend is scheduled to correspond with a political act — the Stonewall Riots. Pride was explicitly conceived as a political event. That it is evolved into Dogwood Festival Part Two is a recent phenomenon.
One of Malcontent’s points in the original post was to express his wish that the city’s gay leadership be more politically savvy. Wishing the gay political movement success against the bigots who run this state is as expressly pro-gay and self-nonloathing (I’d say self-loving, but it’s a loaded term) as one can get.
Andi, the reason I called him self-loathing (admittedly a personal attack on my part) is because all he has to say about gay culture is negative. Be it that these continued negative observations are a “hope” for change, and “self-loving” reaction to what he deems a detriment to the “gay agenda” are shrouded in such negativity, one could surmise that he indeed has nothing nice to say about a group he identifies with, and yes, would indicate some level of loathing his membership of that group. When people have a problem with something in their lives, they often belittle it, or criticize it in order to feel better about it. I believed that this is what he was doing, and if that observation (which came from reading his own writing) is wrong, so sue me. I won’t be partaking of his writing any more, so I guess my confusion will end here.
And just because Pride began as a political event, does not mean that it is a solely political event now. It can be argued that EVERYTHING is political, and I don’t think that something such as a Pride festival (which involves drinking and celebrating being gay) should have to follow strict standards as to avoid representing gay culture as even more deviant and stereotypical. And again, I called his constant critique of gay culture self-loathing because when someone consistently condemns and negatively points at something they are a part of (for whatever reason), one does think that there is a element of disassociation through self-loathing in those statements. Maybe it was a little harsh, but it is my reaction to negative comment after negative comment about anything related to being gay from him. And again, I won’t make that mistake again.
God you dig your own grave well. Sorry to lose you as a reader, but quite indicative of people like yourself who don’t broker dissent — ignore it. Obviously I made you think, and I suppose that’s a scary thing for some. And yes, that can be construed as a personal attack (are we even now)?
Duane, that picture is fantastic, next time you see your friend give him a huge hug, that made my Monday so much better!
ATL, I don’t see how I “dug my own grave” as you put it… you voiced your negative opinions (as always), and I made the assessment that there is probably something deeper to that constant stream of negativity. By saying that you dissent from the gay culture, by, as you do, attacking any and everything you find wrong with it, that is your prerogative, but it is also our prerogative to interpret that as having some issue of self-loathing, since you identify with the group.
And you have forced me to think, I think that you are very sensitive about this issue, and as such, take the defensive. Thinking doesn’t scare me, I’ve been doing it all my life, but when people are constantly negative about everything and just complain all of the time, I am sure that it is also hard for them to see past their own negativity. Perhaps the gay community will eventually live up to your standards, but perhaps not. Either way, I am sure that you will keep complaining, and I will keep wondering if that is actually self loathing, or not. Sorry if I offended you, perhaps you aren’t self loathing (I’ll even admit that is a little strong on my part), as you have indicated, but one thing’s for sure, it sure seems to at least lean that way from the outside. I have also learned it is best to keep my thoughts about you (and your blog) to myself. No more insults from me, and I would appreciate the same from you.
You still haven’t pointed out what negative things I said about you — probably bec. there weren’t any ad hominem attacks on my part. And I wasn’t even the one who pointed that out. I would’ve welcomed a mature debate on this, but am satisfied that you’ve chosen to take your ball and go home.
As I posted on his blog, I think you two should meet, whip them out and get this argument over with. It feels like I am at home for Christmas again listening to my family argue about why the turkey is burnt.
Duane…you give your friend a big ol’ gay hug from me! That’s awsome!!! Pride this year has been pretty dern amazing for me and that’s a definate feather in the cap. Hopefully you won’t mind if I “borrow” the picture cause it really is great.
GrandMaster D-
At first I wasn’t going to add any fuel to this fire, and then I thought, eh, what the heck. =0)
I think that fairly often on your blog you bring up controversial or hotly-debated issues, and you seem to enjoy or at least welcome the comment-land discussion that ensues. That’s why I’ve always felt fairly comfortable espousing my radical right-wing extremist views here on various topics (ha ha).
I don’t know the history here between you and this blogger, I guess I could go back and look for some examples. But I will say this: doesn’t your position on his “dissent” from the status quo of the gay community remind you of the “dissent is disloyal” position taken by the Bushies and some right-wingers? I mean, you’re such a staunch admirer of Dixie Chick-style dissent-as-proof-of-patriotism that I’m surprised this guy’s self-critique of his own “subculture” community bothered you.
Anyway, just a thought. As someone who’s had the reflexive “self-loathing” epithet hurled at him a time or ten, I can sort of relate to his emotional response.
I don’t hate myself because of my politics. I hate myself because of these ten pounds I can’t seem to shed. =0)
“The beauty of this country is that I can have my opinions, and you can have yours; but it doesn’t make me wrong or “sad” for expressing them.”
Duane Moody, June 2, in response to someone using his political viewpoint to attack him personally.
I accidentally attended a Pride-type outing on Sunday at Park Tavern when I went to see the band I work with play. Those in attendance did not let the weather dampen their spirits, and I must say, as a straight chick, it’s quite flattering to be in the presence of many bisexual or lesbian females. I’m going to try and take more of it in next year.
Thanks for pointing that out, Andi, and just so you know, I never called ATLMalcontent sad or wrong, I simply said that he was self loathing, and more than explained how and why I thought that. I want to make it pretty clear (which I thought that I had done, but perhaps not) that he is definitely entitled to his opinions, my assessment was a call on where those opinions come from; not an assessment as to whether or not they were correct. I critiqued his critique of gay culture because I found it a bit unsettling, and that is definitely my prerogative (as it is also his to critique it in the first place). I am all for people having their own opinions, and I never suggested otherwise. Now, let’s get down from the high horse, okay?
High horse?
What could possibly be more high-horsed than to assume that someone is self-loathing just because you don’t agree with his political viewpoints?
And while we’re at it, what could be more hypocritical than to demand of Daniel Moore what you refuse to grant ATLMalcontent; the right to hold a political opinion without the having your character questioned.
The core problem here, in fact the only problem, is that you read an opinion that you disagree with, an opinion that upset you, so you assumed that there must be something wrong (self-loathing) with the person who expressed it.
Looking down on someone for being or thinking differently than you do = high horse.
“”The beauty of this country is that I can have my opinions, and you can have yours; but it doesn’t make me wrong or “sad” for expressing them.”
Perhaps you should go back to you June 2 post and change it to:
“The beauty of this country is that I can have my opinion, and you can have yours; however if I disagree with your opinions I will assume that something is deeply wrong with you.”
Andy
Over on my blog, we stick almost exclusively to the low horse. But it sure is fun to come over here and watch the sparks fly! Thanks for keeping it interesting…
Or, I could just delete those opinions, like you do. Both you and ATLmalcontent use this condescending tone in everything that you say, and that is the high horse I am referring to. I admitted that my self-loathing call was strong, done. But did I call him wrong? No. And, since you want to reference the Daniel Moore incident, I would have to say that the situation was totally different. The feelings I had about malcontent were told directly to him; the mistake that Daniel made was saying those things behind my back. I don’t like having my character questioned either, but he had done it to my face, it would have been a different story all together. Perhaps you should have looked at what I actually wrote when that incident occurred. He is definitely entitled to his opinion, but when that opinion is about me, I am at least entitled to an opportunity to refute it; especially if it is a skewed opinion based on half-manipulated “facts”.
As for what you said: (which is your “core problem”)
This is again, not true. I never said anything was wrong with him having this opinion. In fact, I am glad that he has a different opinion, do I think that it is a little self loathing? Well, I explained why I thought so. That is my opinion, and I am entitled to it, as is he. Just because I think that it is a bit self-loathing, doesn’t mean that I think it is wrong. Those two things aren’t the same. But I don’t want to sit around and argue semantics with you, because I am sure that you are just going to “prove me wrong” again in 30 seconds anyway. I hope it makes you feel good to be so right all of the time.
Now I’m condescending? You just can’t resist the personal attacks, can you Duane.
yes. you are condescending. That isn’t a personal attack, it is an observation of how you speak to me through your comments and MANY posts. I addressed my issue with you in one posts, you drug out the issues with me through several condescending ones. If I read them as condescending, that isn’t a personal attack; it is an observation.
Are you trying to tell me that you WEREN’T being condescending? Perhaps I don’t know what the meaning of that word is either? This is such child’s play, I am more than over this. If I have to, I will disable comments on this thread to stop this BS.
Hey, you’re the one who kept at it … I’m just repsonding. Interesting that you would choose to disable comments … how fascist of you.
I’m not going to entertain you anymore… go ahead, get the last word (I know you are going to). I promise not to disable any comments, I would hate to be a fascist. (who’s name calling now?)
Josh ROCKS!!! Always Has. I am so loving the Pink shirt.
I want the last word!
BTW….I really think u should send that picture to the advocate or something….it deserves some serious publicity
That photo is classic!
best drag from last week’s brazilian pride:
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/1539/2133/200/parada_gay%204.jpg