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11 Responses to “Mom, mommy, dad, daddy???”

1. 1 Deb Jul 6th, 2005 at 4:37 pm

   I agree. Thank you for mentioning it. I get asked this question all the time (as the non-birth mommy in a two-mommies family), and am just desensitized to it. I’m looking for suggestions on how to retort…nice bitchy replies would be personally rewarding!

   I usually just tell interested parties they both call us mommy…and that they will work it out for themselves as they get older. Our dog knows us both as ‘mommy’…I say, ‘Molly, go to mommy’ and she goes to my partner, and the reverse is true as well. If my dog can figure it out, my kids can too.

   Bring on the suggestions for bitchy retorts…I’m all ears…

2. 2 Laura Jul 7th, 2005 at 10:21 am

   I don’t get it. Sorry to disappoint you, Duane, but I would ask that question. Of course, now I can’t and have to just sit and wonder. I mean, how do you know that the child doesn’t just go by first names? Or if you are playing with the kid and say, “there’s your mommy,” and the child turns and says, “No, that’s my biological mother.” How do you respond to that without immediately cocking your head in confusion, and thereby instilling an embarrassment in that child? I wouldn’t mean to, but a toddler says that to me, and I am going to be dumbfounded for a moment or two (of course, that’s because I am not too quick on the uptake)

   I think your problem with this question is that you think that someone asks it only to chide the couple about their “non-traditional” family. I’ll bet most people ask that question just to have something to say. I doubt most people mean any harm. And from those of us raised with “That’s Mommy. That’s Daddy,” it’s unfair that we had to learn TWO names, when all this person’s child has to do is scream, “Mommy!” and everyone shows up. NOT FAIR!

   Oh, and what about the couple who has “Momma and Mommy” or some other thing. I mean, you need to know this stuff if you are holding the baby and he screams, “I WANT MOMMA!” Handing him to the wrong person would be embarrassing and he would probably start screeching and it would just be bad.

   So, I don’t understand your hostility. Explain it better.

   Oh… and Zombies!

3. 3 Laura Jul 7th, 2005 at 10:22 am

   Oh, and I found this sentence and knew you had to see it.

   “They should put a warning at the beginning of this short film, because no one and I repeat — NO ONE — is expecting a ZOMBIE MUSICAL. “

4. 4 duane Jul 7th, 2005 at 1:25 pm

   Laura, just because people would ask that question in ignorance (i.e. “I’ll bet most people ask that question just to have something to say. I doubt most people mean any harm.”), doesn’t make it right. It calls into question the relationship of the parents, and determines that it is different from a “normal” family unit. By asking the mother (either mother) what their child calls them, is basically asking them what role they play in their relationship, both with their partner and with their child. It is innocent, but it does chide nonetheless.

   Also, I know that you were trying to say that people don’t do it intentionally, or at least, not with the purpose of causing harm; but, my point is that it is inappropriate, because you would never ask a straight person what their child calls them. It calls into question gender roles and “normal” family roles, and that is the point here.

   And another thing… if you want something that is truly not fair (way more so that having to remember two names), the mommies are not allowed to marry, and have to be subjected to constant scrutiny about their roles in their families; that my friend, is not fair.

5. 5 Deb Jul 7th, 2005 at 2:02 pm

   Hmmmm. I am dumbfounded…nay, speechless…that my child would say something as awful, as Laura suggests, as “”No, that’s my biological mother” in response to being passed to the ‘wrong’ mommy on a playground. Oh my god, what are you thinking. I can’t even comment. What a horrifying scenario.

   I guess, as queer people, we come across these wonderful ‘educational moments’ once in a while. Here is one for you Laura, and countless others like you: both our children call us us mamma, and if they chose some other name we would not care. We do not tell strangers who ask (and they do, and often) who is or is not their biologicial mother. We tell all people that we are both their mother’s, end of story. Similarly, we do not discuss our donor, nor the method we used to conceive. These things are simply private. We try desperately to protect our children from the lack of understanding and rudeness shown by most people who are not gay and who seem to be quite obsessed with knowing what our children call us, which one of us is the biological mother, who their donor is, and what will we tell them about sex, about us, about our family. To continue to be asked these questions reduces my family to something similar to a circus act. It is not acceptable to walk up to a heterosexual couple with kids that you do not know, ask what the kids call their parents, how they were conceived, if each of their parents is actually biological, and so on. Different standards = ignorance at best, phobia at worst.

   Like most people, I grew up in a heterosexual family with a mommy and a daddy. It didn’t seem such a burden to have to learn 2 names. What IS a burden, however, is that my family is denied over 1000 legal protections and rights that married heterosexual families have. Doesn’t seem fair, does it?

6. 6 Laura Jul 7th, 2005 at 2:46 pm

   I hope you are happy! I changed the email address for you.

   Oh, and newsflash…

   “It calls into question gender roles and ‘normal family roles, and that is the point here.”

   Yes, there are different gender roles in the relationships you describe. Most of us are familiar with father and mother. I can’t help that. Are you going to tell me there isn’t a difference? that I should automatically know what the difference is or that there isn’t a difference?

   I ask questions for two reasons. First, if I want an answer; second, to show interest in another person. Questions show that you are open to the other person and that you are interested in what they have to say. I don’t live your lifestyle. How else am I going to understand? Why is it so offensive or annoying to tell someone about your life/children/family? And as far as gender roles, ven though a couple is made of the same gender, you have to admit there is a dominant and submissive. Hell, you know me and Rick. While he is a man, most of the time is is the caring, mother type. Most of the time, I am not. Hell, my nephew still calls me Uncle Laura.

7. 7 duane Jul 8th, 2005 at 10:03 am

   Laura, there is no defined dominant and submissive, that is society’s way of controlling you, by putting you into categories, and forcing you to find them when they are not necessarily present (i.e. your example about role reversal between you and Rick). I do not deny that some relationships have dominant and submissive qualities, but I would venture to guess that many, if not most, gay relationships see themselves as equal stakeholders and partners (unless they are into the dominant and submissive thing, but that is a whole other story, and if it works for them…). But I guess my concern here is this: What Deb and I are talking about is how it is completely inappropriate for strangers to ask these questions, as it does nothing but call into question your family and the role you play in that family. If you were asking these questions because you wanted to get to know the person, or if you did know the person, you would know the hurtful tone these questions possess, and probably wouldn’t ask them. These questions seek to determine why someone is different, and that can be hurtful. It is one thing to ask who the birth mother is of a friend or acquaintance, it is another to ask “so what do your kids call you?” or “so which one of you is the real mommy?” to a stranger. Those questions and situations have different connotations, and I believe that you can see that too. The main point is, it is personal who the birth mother is, and quite frankly, it doesn’t even matter. Both mommy’s are the mother, and that should be the end of it. Asking them who is this, and isn’t this, is trying to place them into predetermined “normal” roles, which obviously do not include homosexuals. And that, believe it or not, is a form of discrimination. I know that you would ask these questions in innocence, but just know that when you step on someone’s foot, even though it isn’t on purpose, it still hurts.

8. 8 Wendy Jul 8th, 2005 at 3:39 pm

   This is a hot topic today. Here is how I feel… I think people who ask these types of questions are on a fishing trip…kind of like people who ask “Are these your kids??” when the kids are swinging around your legs. Most don’t care if they are your kids they are just trying to start a chat with you or either they are looking to find something out about you.

   Now, I must say that I would hate someone asking me “what do they call you and/or your partner” - this is a question however that someone who is understanding of the non-traditional family might would ask only of one of their friends who have kids. Get it out of your system type of thing and move on. For the rest of society - they are just trying to label, hurt and/or harass those that they fear because they are not “normal”.
   And one last thing, we all deserve equal rights and freedom. We should all be able to walk through life with/without kids and not have questions thrown at us about who we are, why we are and what we call each other. My nickname is the same as yours and what my kids call me is the same as yours - personal!! It really isn’t a question that should be asked to anyone.

   I guess some people are very sensitive about the feelings of others and that keeps them from asking a question that can be so hurtful…for the rest - they are the ones who don’t care that millions of people still don’t have equal rights, can’t marry, share health benefits, and in some states live together without fear. What is this world coming to??

9. 9 Josh Jul 10th, 2005 at 12:26 pm

   This scenario reminds me of all the times my roll in my sexual relationships has been called into question, like my younger brother asking me “are you the man or the woman in the relationship?” At first I was horrified at the question, and still am, but came to realize something. What my brother asked was just reaction to what he learned to be the norm. His dominant paradigm was always man/woman relationships. He had nothing else to look to. His parents and his grandparents, his friends’ parents, and everyone he saw on television were in man/woman relationships. The only deviation was people whose parents had gotten a divorce (more on this later).

   Now, his question came out of ignorance, like Duane has said about the mommy/mommy question, and while wrong, I don’t see it as “completely inappropriate for strangers to ask these questions.” It is inappropriate, and even more so if they are a complete strangers, but I have asked myself the same question before. Of course I answered it myself within seconds, but it still crossed my mind. The difference is that I know better because of my own experiences as a queer and through my education. I understand that gender is fluid, and that these so called norms are just creations of the people who make up society. But these are thoughts that people have when their dominant paradigm is challenged, and personally believe that whenever their paradigm is challenged and they have questions, it is a good thing.

   Now, if someone came up to you in the grocery store while you were shopping together as a family and asked you that question - that is COMPLETELY wrong. Questions like that are inappropriate for anyone for any reason. But what about being at a party with a lot of people and someone who you have known for all of five minutes asks you? To me, that is not as that huge of a deal. They have talked to you, and have moved beyond the label of complete stranger to just a stranger you now are acquainted with. Could have shared a couple of jokes, or stories, etc. That breeds some sort of familiarity and questions that arise come out of wanting to know more about you or whatever. I do not believe, they are, as Wendy put it, trying to “label, hurt and/or harass” you. And I never want to diminish someone who is just trying to understand, in fact, I applaud them.

   And while is not Deb’s, or Duane’s, or my job to be the spokesperson for all queers out there, in the same way my friend Ebony does not talk for all black people, we are still in a unique time in our (queer) history. Not everyone has a gay friend, or even know they know one. And many people’s only knowledge of queer culture is shaped by Will & Grace, Queer Eye, or many of the other stereotypes that are out there in the mainstream media. Is that there fault that is the only picture they have, probably a little, but not completely and if they want to augment that with some real world experience and questions then I am all for it. For example, I grew up in a small town in the mountains of Arizona and did not meet my first black person until I was 10 years old. My only experience was with the Different Strokes and the Cosby show, and when I moved to Indiana, where there was a large black population, I had tons of questions about black people. And even though my parents had always taught me to treat everyone equally and that black people were no different from me or my Native American Indian (lived on an Indian Reservation) or Latino neighbors, I had never experience it before. After some experiences and questions I learned that we were just the same, with some of the same problems, thoughts, etc.

   This question also reminds of a situation that seemed strange to me when I was growing up. It was the early 80’s and the divorce rate was just skyrocketing. I had friends who had divorced parents and ones that had remarried. I remember once being at my friend’s house whose dad had remarried. He called his dad “dad” and his step-mom “Ann.” This did not bother me because it was how I always knew that. Well, one of his dad’s friends came over and when her heard my friend call his step-mom “Ann” he asked why he did that. My friend’s dad just said, he has a mom that he calls mom and that he just calls his step-mom Ann. I had never questioned my friend calling his step-mom “Ann” and it seemed completely normal to me, but that is because I did not know that was not some societal norm or whatever. I liked my friend’s Dad’s response, the same way I like Deb’s response of “they both call us mommy…and that they will work it out for themselves as they get older.” Today, that question would rarely be asked. People know that divorced families deal with it in all different kinds of ways with all different kinds of labels. I believe that queer families are in the same situation now.

   Now, for Laura. Laura, I think you are reading way too much into the situation. Kids are smart, a lot smarter than I think you are giving them credit. They know and understand a lot, and many times are quicker to pick up on stuff than adults who already have preconceived notions about gender or what constitutes a family. Also, if a kid yells out mommy you better believe that, when talking about a hetero family, that both the mom and the dad will look. Not just the one who answers to mommy or daddy.

10. 10 Wendy Jul 10th, 2005 at 6:16 pm

    Josh, I agree with what you said for the most part but I still say that fear drives people to ask these types of questions. I can not speak as a parent here but I do understand fully the pain forced upon gays.
    Sure, most people only have stereotypes to guide or I should say misguide their views and opinions but that is not what I ment. I feel as if most of society fears those that are not of the “norm” and they use questions as a way to group. I do agree with you that most people only question as a fight or flight response when their status quo is challenged.
    I have taught kids from gay families and had other parents ask questions like “Who do you list as the father/mother?” - the parents do a great job of answering while I must stay out of it because it can be a legal matter. This is the same as asking the mom/dad question. Yes, it is being asked for information but also is used to “label, hurt and/or harass” in a nice way I guess.

    Duane, when you have kids just have them call me “cuz”…and I’ll make sure to spoil them. I’m sure they will not have any problems with what to call you or James and if anyone gives you or your kids a hard time - just remember - I’ll always have your back!!

11. 11 duane Jul 13th, 2005 at 10:10 am

    I think that almost everyone is in agreement here: Asking a stranger this question is inappropriate, even if it is done in ignorance. People are trying to label and make themselves more comfortable, and while they may not intend to be malicious; it still comes across as hurtful. Now, let’s all be happy, and think of bitchy retorts!

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